…so, let me show it to you

This is my attempt to show you what you don’t see - not convert you away from Christianity, not to mock your beliefs or your god, not to convince you that you are wrong, just to help you understand.

What I don’t see though is why people are so defiant against Christianity - or any religion at all, for that matter.

What I don’t see is why some people can’t understand this. To many people, religion, especially fundamentalist religion is scary. I’m talking about Fred Phelps, Taliban, Jerry Fallwell, Islamic terrorists, people that shoot up abortion clinics, and so forth.

Now, I’m not saying all people that subscribe to a religion are fundamentalist, I’m not even saying that all fundamentalists are dangerous. I just know that religious belief can be, in some cases, an enabling factor for very scary behavior. Therefore, it is natural and understandable to begin the approach with some caution.

Religion is the same as alcohol or pornography in that aspect: no problem with someone enjoying it, but when it becomes the main focus of someone’s life - a little flag goes up.

What I see from those who I will call atheists is something different. And before I get into it, I’ll say that I might be using the wrong term. It’s just easier for me to use a term.

There’s a couple of points to be made of this (and the following sentences):

1. You haven’t bothered to educate yourself on what an “atheist” is, but you know you don’t like it!
2. It’s easier to just label people, than to actually attempt to understand a develop an empathy for them. Yet, I suspect you wouldn’t want your interpretation of Christianity to be lumped in with, say, Fred Phelps’ interpretation of Christianity.

However, perhaps one could see where “defying” Mr. Phelps is reasonable? And so, how do I know your version is safer than his? Am I obligated to discuss such matters with every professing Christian? I know that some flavors of your belief are dangerously misguided, some are less obviously so, and some harmless. I don’t have the time, inclination, or obligation to sort them all out. For a friend or family member, perhaps I can make the effort - but for every random encounter? It’s just easier to “use a term”, one you’ve given yourself: Christian. I don’t like what it has come to mean, and I err on the side of caution.

What I don’t get is that they would prefer to believe in nothing than something.

Do you really think the only alternative to believing in Christianity, is the belief in “nothing”? Do you think that agnostics and atheists are nihilists, or otherwise depressed with a sense of purposelessness? How sad it must be that you can see no intrinsic worth in mankind itself, indeed in yourself without an appeal to a diety.

I don’t get it. Even if you are wrong, so what? You spend your life believing in something greater than yourself. You share time with other people who believe similarly to yourself, and you enjoy their company as well as the special moments found through time spent together. Often you help the lives of not only yourself or those other people, but people who would never have been helped otherwise. This might be through something simple like a few kind words to a coworker or it might be something more tangible, like a donation to the less fortunate or perhaps even a meal for someone who cannot afford it on their own.

First off, read up on Pascal’s Wager. Second, is there something unique in Christianity that allows:

  • sharing time with people of similar beliefs?
  • enjoying those people company and special moments with those people?
  • helping the lives of others?
  • saying a few kind words to a coworker?
  • giving charitable donations?
  • preparing or donating food to the less fortunate?

Of course not - you even admit so in the next paragraph - however, the subtext is already put out there, that somehow only Christians can truly be charitable or perform good works, that athiests don’t really do such things, or they are somehow inferior when done by non-Christians. Of course, this is always denied when put so explicitly, but the belief is there, why else the argument made?

It’s this condensending, simple “we are better than you” attitude that so many Christians exude, sometimes unaware, that is offensive. And people defy what they find offensive.

It doesn’t help that many apologists tend to regurgitate the same flawed arguments.

Let me interject a short point to ponder: if I, as an athiest, perform a charitable deed, it may be of my own will. If you, as a Christian peform a chariable deed, is it of your own will? Or is it out of fear of eternal damnation? Perhaps I am doing it because I enjoy the act, and you are only doing it because you must? Are not atheists more moral, then?

I’m simply pointing out - using the scientific method if you like - what it is that atheists think is so wrong about believing in God. I don’t know. I’d like to know. Is it that they don’t want to be victims of a hoax?

No, I don’t like. The scientific method is nowhere to be found in the essay. This is another interesting aspect of many Christians. The absolute disregard for the scientific method, evidence, and logical thinking, yet the desire to validate thier faith with those very same tools. Religion is a matter of faith, not reason or logic. There is only a conflict between Religion and Science when one intrudes on the other’s domain, and it is by thier own natures that Religion attempts to dictate to Science, where Science can not speak at all on matters of faith.

See, it’s not that we think there is something so wrong about believing in God. Believe in whatever you like. It is the imposition of those beliefs on others that is the problem. There are two things to mention along these lines:

1. Often Christians are not aware that they are imposing thier beliefs on others. Occasionally, they know and don’t care - that’s the really offensive ones.
2. After many cases of #1, some non-Christians are “pre-emptive” in thier attacks on Christians. This doesn’t make it right (or wrong), but it does make it understandable.

And what have I lost? The chance to disprove the Bible? To proclaim the church as the greatest hoax in history? The opportunity to declare that I don’t need a crutch to get through life? I think that’s a trade worth making.

And I do not.

If you can not understand that your decision is solely one of faith, and therefore there must be other positions are at least as defensible, you won’t see it.

If you don’t see that out of all the gods and religions that mankind has ever contemplated that I just believe in one less than you do, you won’t see it.

3 Responses to …so, let me show it to you »»


Comments

  1. Comment by jayseae | 2004/12/26 at 04:57:01

    My writing was addressed to a particular crowd. In fact, you pointed that out (”What I see from those who I will call atheists…” was my original quote). This pointed specifically to that crowd’s lack of belief in a deity of any sort, and I think that was pretty clear because of the word I chose. Perhaps my disclaimer is what threw you - I included that because I didn’t want to be guilty of offending someone because I didn’t use the nom du jour for the group (atheist americans, for instance, which also wouldn’t be fair to non-american readers).

    What happens next is where I get lost. Your post appears to assume that I am addressing all non-Christians (”Do you really think the only alternative to believing in Christianity, is the belief in “nothing”?”). From a theistic standpoint, being an atheist very much requires a “belief in nothing” (definition from the Wikipedia, which you used, so I assume you will accept it as a source). I also addressed no other group based on their religious beliefs, so your argument doesn’t appear to hold - I’m not addressing any other alternatives to Christianity, only the one.

    Another point that I felt should be obvious was that I was not imposing the merits of Christianity, but that I was trying to find out why people - specifically the aforementioned atheists - have a problem with it. Nowhere in that post did I ever mention that atheists or any other group of people could not perform good works. Merely that those are things that exist in my life in large part because of my spiritual beliefs, and that I couldn’t understand why some folks have a problem with that.

    You then briefly mentioned some other reasons about why people (specifically yourself) don’t like Christianity, and I thank you for those, as that’s what I wanted to know. The links appear to provide for some… “interesting” reading, and I’ll certainly check up on them. But while you say that Christians have unfairly lumped others into groups, you are doing the same thing here. Simply because Fred Phelps is a Christian doesn’t mean that every Christian is like Fred Phelps.

    You see, what was missed in the post is my question. I asked over and over for information, giving the opportunity for a strong rebuttal, and your writing only marginally provides it. You mention that I won’t see that other positions are at least as defensible, yet you don’t defend! Instead, you attempt to attack, and in so doing commit many of the errors which are used to dissect my arguments. Rather than defending with reason and logic, values that you appear to cherish, you have chosen to point and shout. Let me know if you would like to try again. I’d like very much to know your thoughts.

  2. Comment by jayseae | 2004/12/26 at 11:42:05

    On a completely unrelated note, your home page is not valid XHTML. Might want to check it out, since you have a link advertising it as such. :)

  3. Comment by Jason | 2004/12/26 at 12:25:10

    I’m glad you took the time to read my response, and I thank you for the time you spent composing your reply in turn.

    As I said in the opening of my response, this was my attempt, and I regret it came across as pointing and shouting. Let me just note that it’s very hard to say why I don’t like something without it coming across as an attack, especially on a such a personal matter.

    One more specific point: I went out of my way to not not lump all Christians in with Fred Phelps, I drew distinctions at least three times. To be explicit: I do not think all Christians are like Fred Phelps.

    That being said, I don’t want to get into a point-by-point rebuttal or debate. I addressed what I could the best I could, in an honest attempt to show you a point of view I interpreted you as asking about. I hope at least one or two points made it across.

    —-
    …And thank you for the XHTML note and being kind enough not to mention my horrible spelling!


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